Beyond Rebranding HR: Building People Strategy That Performs

Job titles are getting a makeover, but most workplaces still feel stuck. We get honest about why renaming HR to People Strategy or People and Culture often backfires: if the work, expectations, and operating model stay the same, the function loses credibility and leaders stay frustrated. What we actually want is a clear signal that the organisation is drawing a line in the sand and redesigning for performance in the era of AI.

TL;DR / At A Glance:

• rebranding HR as a signal only when behaviours and systems change
• people strategy, business strategy and technology strategy as one joined model
• future skills that stay constant alongside AI literacy and data judgement
• role clarity and updated expectations as the foundation for performance
• hiring and managing for outputs rather than clinging to job titles
• workflow mapping to decide what to automate and what must stay human
• HR business partner model shifting into consulting and diagnosis
• limits of self-service and why empathy still matters at work

We unpack the future skills people need now, not five years from now. Yes, AI literacy matters, but we also call out the capabilities that never stopped being essential: communication, curiosity, resilience, systems thinking, analytical decision making, and financial literacy. We talk about why AI is “lifting the lid” on gaps that were already there, and why quality control of AI output and critical thinking are becoming non-negotiable human skills as automation expands.

Then we get practical: stop starting with a grand HR transformation and start by mapping one real workflow end to end. We explore hiring and managing for outputs rather than titles, what the HR business partner role should look like as a consulting and diagnostic partner, and where self-service and automation should stop so employee experience does not collapse at the moments that matter. 

If you care about HR transformation, people strategy, AI at work, and building high-performing teams without overloading your managers, you will leave with a sharper model and clear next steps. 

Subscribe, share this with a people leader who needs it, and leave us a review, then reply with your take: what would you rename, and what would you redesign first?

Transcript

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Why Future Skills Matter Now

Kieran Gilmurray 0:01

Welcome to today's podcast. So far in the series, Laura and I have talked about all of the problems there is with management, leadership, fake performance views, and everything else. We've talked about how AI is not a shiny toy that suddenly comes in and makes everything magic inside of organizations. Today we're going to talk about the future skills that people need. We're going to talk about the roles that need to exist to allow firms to actually perform. Laura, what do we think needs to happen? Do we retitle HR? Do we retitle a whole load of roles around the business? Or actually are we talking about making fundamental changes to give people who are watching us the answers to the questions that they no doubt have over the last four or five episodes? And good to see you.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Absolutely. And look, we we have talked openly and frequently about those challenges that organizations are facing. And we'll continue to be transparent in what we're seeing. But today we want to bring our experience front and center, look at those future skills for now, not in five years' time. Really to focus on what really matters and to share practical steps leaders can take today to prepare their people and also their organizations for us coming next. And it's an interesting area to consider at the outset is that does the title really matter? And does rebranding HR andor other roles make a difference? And I wonder, I know this is something that we mentioned on our last podcast, there was a couple of titles, um, Kieran, that you'd come across that were very new to me. Um, well, the capability and the competence essentially is in the same kind of space, but but we've we're calling it something else. So I think that's one thing that that maybe we'll explore a little bit initially is the idea of organizations rebranding, but not changing the actual expectation on people. So I wonder if you might maybe share some experiences that you've come across recently and keeping that future focus in mind and what organizations' skills they need right now.

Kieran Gilmurray 2:09

Yeah,

Rebranding HR Without Real Change

Kieran Gilmurray 2:10

I'll I'll not lament about having seen a thousand times, you know, a rebranded title. So HR to people strategy, HR to something else, and nothing changes underneath, and therefore, you know, it it loses credibility. So I think we have to say yes immediately. Uh nothing wrong with rebranding, as long as the rebranding is more than name uh alone. And I think at some point, you know, there has to be a signal, Laura, that if we're really serious about the era of AI, if we're really serious about you know, high performing, high uh, you know, uh well-managed teams, uh, then there has to be some, you know, right, folks, we're stopping, we're putting a line in the sand, and we're moving forward. And and if in if part of it is name rebranding, and I'm a personal fan of people strategy, because we talk about you know, uh, tech strategy, we talk about business strategy, then we talk about HR, and it seems disconnected from the strategy itself. But those three things are a three-legged stool for me. So if we need to rebrand the department, I I'm open, I'm happy. Now, I I would suggest uh, and I think you're alluding to this, rebranding isn't alone because today we've got, you know, what you might say is traditional people services, then you might have, depending on the size of your business, HR business partners up in the tier structure, or if you look at think it triangular, and then you have a center of expertise or CHRO. You know, today I I think we need to change all that. You know, we've AI at the bottom. I think we need more service architecture, you know, we need more problem solvers, we need more product managers. When we look at what the business is actually going to employ, you know, we need whole new teams, and those new teams might be different. So your chief marketing officer will probably have, you know, a prompt strategist or an agentic ops manager, an AI content strategist, an AI creative director. And notice you've still got strategist, you've still got manager, you've still got content, you've still got creative. But the name, the title in itself is a north star to what's important. You know, I don't actually hire or never would hire a marketing manager. I would always hire a growth marketing manager. And the reason is that that's what you're there to do. You're not there to market because anybody can market. I can hand out five euro in Conley and get a thousand people. It doesn't mean a thing. I'm actually there to grow the business. And today, because AI is so prescient, and this is the problem, we name titles and then they stay for it. There's nothing wrong with renaming the title, then I want the word, you know, vibe or or AI strategist or whatever else, AI growth marketing manager, much prefer that. Uh, but again, it can't just be in the title. You know, in terms of you know, what we're actually asking uh of folks that needs to change, what's acceptable or non-acceptable performance needs to change, how we coach people at the end of the month. So, you know, if I if I'm in marketing, I'm going to go, well, how is AI changing your plan? Or how you execute campaigns, you know, how do you use AI to personalize message, generate content, or analyze performance? I'm gonna ask my team that. You know, if I'm building product, I want to go. Well, give me an example of a time when you used AI to build a product, you know, did it improve it? Was it better, faster, cheaper? You know, so within the titles, take, you know, name them, north star them, but change the structure underneath. Um now we're talking about from you know, HR, C Mark, it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, and I think it's uh uh the more recent one that I've come across is people and culture, which I I quite liked.

Kieran Gilmurray 5:34

It's been there for years, and that's not a criticism.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

But it has it has become trendy again because it had disappeared into the ether and it seems to be resurfacing again. So I think we we are seeing uh a trend towards where we're rebranding, we're changing a label, we're you know, introducing a new logo. But when we're looking at HR, whatever you call it, I think when we're looking at the skills going forward, the rebrand is going to achieve very little unless the functions, capability, and behavior changes. And I think that's what's interesting when I look at clients that I'm working with currently, is that there's a move towards capability. So we're looking more towards helping organizations build capability and then create, I think, to your three-legged stool element there to create conditions and systems for people to perform within. But in terms again of those skills that people will be looking for, specifically for HR, I think there's much more of a blended set required and more of an expectation on a skill set that's transferable, so that you're opening opportunities for individuals to be more mobile. And again, looking at HR, you're looking at needing

The Skills List Everyone Keeps Missing

SPEAKER_00 6:50

more of a commercial acumen than we would have had previously, where you're more focused on how that organization is making money, delivers services, and it's less just about that nice to have service, you know, and then obviously the AI and data literacy pieces that while HR may not necessarily, and please challenge me on this, HR may not necessarily need to know how to code, but they do need to know how to question data and how to use AI appropriately and safely. You know, and I know there was a piece of research that found that the with quality control of AI output and critical thinking were among the human skills becoming more important as AI use expands.

Kieran Gilmurray 7:33

See me smiling. Uh what's different? Uh and let me explain the what's different. Skills, competencies, whatever you've got. You know, I've always wanted people to have a variety of skills because, yes, when you look at workplaces, go back to Fordism, workplaces were optimized for efficiency. We put in more technology, we just wanted more, more, and more. Now we're saying, you know, and we we AI is enabling it because it's so cheap, but we could have done it for decades. Actually, it's not about efficiency, but companies are still overindexing in that is we want you to have a variety of skills because we won't move in a thousand directions. But what's different? Let me explain. Like, I always wanted, and anybody I hired, I want them to be resilient, I want them to be flexible, and I want them to be, you know, you have to come to work. Not every day is a box of chocolates, but you know, come in expecting a good day, you'll have a good day. You know, I want excellent communication skills. That's become trendy again, should never been lost. I want personal motivation, I want self-awareness, I want creative problem solvers and system thinkers. That's no different. Now AI is lifting the lid, it's showing us that we maybe don't have those things. I want incredible curiosity. I want the people to be coding-centric, not just think of themselves. I want them to be client-centric, I want a strong work ethic, I want them to take initiative to improve themselves. Notice I haven't even got any of the digital skills yet, you know, but I want data skills. Data's been around for years. I want data-driven decision making, or I call it analytical thinking, so less gut, more fact. And then I want financial literacy because a business success is the sum of the individuals' decisions that we make. And I did a survey in the last 20 classrooms that I taught, and I said, put up your hand if you were taught basic literacy when you started your company as a new graduate. No hands. Okay, put up your hand if you were taught basic financial literacy when you moved into a high performance role or a manager role or a senior role or a board role. No hands. You know, I want that, and now I want digital skills. Guess what? I've wanted those for 15, 20 years, and now I want AI skills uh because they're so cheap. And I want I mean gen AI skills that can now be the masses can afford. So notice out of the 15 things, I'm rather demanding. I've only said AI once.

unknown 9:42

Yeah.

Kieran Gilmurray 9:43

Everything else I've expected for the last 15, 20 years. So why is all of these capabilities, these skills, and everything else now trendy? That feels like we're creating activity, but how do we move from trendy to cake? Because the managers on the call that are listening in today, who we have kicked around the place and then went, folks, it's not you, or not just you, you're certainly accountable. What do we tell them, Lenice?

SPEAKER_00 10:06

You've already answered that. I mean, the the the answer is the communication piece, the answer is the setting out the expectations because often the reality is when we go into our organizations, the role expectations, irrelevant of what it is called, the expectations haven't been made clear or haven't been set out. The job descriptions or role profiles, or again, call them what you will, are out of date, they're defunct, they're no longer applicable or fit for purpose. People don't actually have something to refer to in terms of what or how their role is defined. Now, look, it's it's not a get out of jail free card, but we have to communicate. And that's what really good organizations and future-facing, I suppose, organizations are doing is you know, we can tell people, oh, be agile, be innovative, be collaborative, and don't forget to continuously learn. But the reality is, you know, you've got your full calendars, your roles, your unclear decision making, you know, where I suppose expectations and reality collided. Maybe we we need to stop thinking in job titles and deploy people according to their skills.

Kieran Gilmurray 11:19

Forget that.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Like, because the reality is, but organizations still need contracts, right? We still need role clarity.

Kieran Gilmurray 11:27

Well, let's just play with that just for a second here. Because again, we're here to solve, not to call out the bloody problems that exist at the moment. No, notice very demanding today. Yeah, look, I seen an interesting thing recently where someone says, and and this is go, it'll be interesting to see how it plans out. Stop hiring from roles because everybody comes in

Making Expectations Clear And Usable

Kieran Gilmurray 11:45

and that's what they want to fit into. And then they want a hierarchy, and then they want a career progression. Not unusual in that, but what are we over-indexing on the title or the impact? And they said, I'm gonna hire for outputs. So they were looking for a very experienced international uh executive assistant, and rather than say experienced international executive assistant, which is that I've had to put something in because LinkedIn, any job site all goes by title. Guess what? We search by title, not by skill and competency. They're going, well, when I interview them, I'm gonna say, here's the outcomes I want to achieve today. How are you gonna hit those? Uh, knowing that in six months' time the business strategy might have changed. And it's not that every time that individual is going, well, yes, as the leader, it's my responsibility, you know, to look to the future, but my eyes aren't enough anymore. I need a highly competent team who are doing their day job, who can use the technology to get back minimum 10 hours a week. So they so they saying that no time, that that's ingrained behavior. I can get anybody back 10 hours a week. Please come and talk. Everybody says, No, you can't every time, every single time, 10 hours a minimum. So I can get you the time to behave differently, but you just have to behave differently. So the work has to change, the workflows have to change, uh and everything else. I've never in my career, so I think once I picked a title. And the only reason I picked the title is the company was thus. It needed to see it. If you didn't have the title, nobody would listen. And the moment I got the title, I went, great, now now you can, but here's what we're going to achieve. And then within three months, because we'd opened up more opportunities, because we got the team working, they seen things I didn't, suddenly we went to the left. We exploited that in the most gorgeous sense. A couple of months afterwards, we kept looking ahead, you know, we kept iterating 18-month cycles. This was 15 years ago. We weren't sitting there with three-year plans, because you and I know it's a three-year plan, we'll do it in year two and miss a bit. So, so why are we still focused on titles? We shouldn't be. The skills we're talking about, it should be as many skills as you can get so you can be applied in as many ways. And if we're waiting for grown adults to always be told what to do or point to a piece of their contract and say, yeah, but no, and that's not me suggesting, folks, anybody listening, your union, whatever else is in place, your contract's in place, to protect you from being exploited. I am talking about businesses where people are not going to get exploited. We've grown adults and we all share the reward. So if suddenly the business becomes more successful, no manager ever had to ask me for a pay rise. I went, what's the market worth? You know, in other words, what is the check on a paid by market? How much experience have you gained? What value are you giving? That was the second parameter. Uh and uh the third one was how much experience do you have? Now the experience was tied to performance, but that little triangle ran all the time. And people were surprised that they were getting a pay rise, and I wasn't because you're going, no, you've been delivering that. And I don't want to take once, you've delivered it, you'll continue to deliver it, you know. So and we never once looked at titles, you know. That's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

And I think just to build on that in terms of say looking at at practical takeaways, our listeners can look at, and you know, we say start with the job opposed to the job title. So, you know, the look choose a workflow, okay, map it from beginning to end. Don't start with

Hire For Outputs, Not Titles

SPEAKER_00 14:55

some large transformation project, start with something real, like recruitment, onboarding, customer queries, multi-reporting, whatever it might be. Um, but that's the kind of work where we can, I suppose, identify what work we're doing today, what work is likely to increase or decrease. So you're you're looking at that future piece and what work could be automated, really focusing in on where a human judgment and relationship piece will still matter.

Kieran Gilmurray 15:22

And at least that's test it then. So let's redesign the HR function. Okay, we said we'd come up with answers. So are we still having are we still calling it HR?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

I don't have a grow one way or the other for what it's called, but I do know that we need to do something differently. We're continuing to what I'm seeing is we're rebranding but doing the same thing. So we're calling people and strategy.

Kieran Gilmurray 15:52

Okay, so let's work with that one. So we're connecting it to the outcomes we want to achieve, you know, which is people strategy, whatever outcomes. Okay. So give me the beneath of that. Are we still saying staying hierarchical? In other words, you know, chief HR officer, business partners, people services. Where do you sit on the on the fence for that?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

For me, we'll keep the business partner model, um, call them people leader supports potentially, um, in the work business units. Um, if because the HR business partner is the individual who knows the various work streams and is closest to those work streams in order to provide the best guidance and best practice support to individuals within that work stream without getting stuck into the weeds. And that's where we often fall down on, and that's what as a next step we want to say to people looking at those future skills is yes, employ the business partner model, especially in organizations where you could have a diverse range of work streams.

Kieran Gilmurray 17:00

What are they going to do then? So I agree because too many business partners are paper pushers, too many business partners are used by managers, you coach them, I'm not, you know. So, what are we getting the business partner to do? Because I think they should be hugely technically gifted, I think they should be financially literate, digitally literally, and everything else, you know, communication, whatever, and understand the outcomes that are to be delivered in that function currently. But I actually want to get rid of functions and I want to look at organizational value streams and I want squads organized to maintain those. Now, smaller numbers maintain, you can't suddenly have a squad binding HR system and then disappearing. So I don't mean it as literally as that. But tell me the HR business partner, how could we get them? What should we be looking for? Him, him, her, she, they, or whatever way they want to decimate. What are they doing every day?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

What they're doing every day, and I think we'll have a tendency to the traditional. So we want more than a senior HR generalist. The role is shifting and it needs to shift from somebody who just understands the business and bringing to bringing in diagnosing the ways or hang on. We want to be having them critical roles that are diagnosing maybe what is getting in the way of performance. Um, it's the link between the people leaders and HR. They need to be strategic, Kieran. They need to be integrating business strategy with people practice within their respective work streams. Again, without the challenges, I think the commercial element is one thing that I would be recommending listeners to consider in that BP role where HR BP needs to understand how the organization creates value where capability or capacity is constraining performance. And it's it's the difference between saying, yo, turnover has increased by X to turnover in this particular team is delaying delivery. Maybe it's increasing over time and placing key client relationships at risk. So their data-driven decision making, data-driven insights, and the ability to read data in that meaningful way and explain a people issue in business terms and a business problem in people terms.

Kieran Gilmurray 19:17

Oh, I like that. I I I'm I just plus one it slightly in that I want them looking 18 months ahead with their business leader to work out not just what we're doing today and how do we tie everything to business outcomes, but I want them to career path people, if that's the right terminology, using AI financial data, all the skills that I expect today, but I want them prepared for 18 months down the line. Because I know it's going to take 18 months to get them those skills and capabilities and everything else that they need. Uh, because the business might be very different in in six months' time, never mind 18 months' time.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And that future of that particular role needs consulting. Okay, so it needs to be have a consulting and a diagnostic capability rather than just here's a menu of HR solutions and we'll take that and off we go. We want to have that future focus where they're asking questions around skills and clarity for the future leadership issues and what would be different if we solved it. So if we have a team requesting, you know, because we've all been here, I was I've I've been a HR BP in many is an opportunity, and I have had teams requesting time management training, and you think, yeah, I can do that, no problem. Um, however, we're not typically doing that more diagnostic approach whereby the team may actually be dealing with conflict, or there might be poor workflow design, or a people leader who changes direction repeatedly. So it's having that ability to consult and diagnose opposed to just provide that suite of HR solutions.

Kieran Gilmurray 20:51

So that's consult, diagnose, coach, mentor, understand future forecast and coming.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah.

Kieran Gilmurray 20:58

So let's go down the level then, or are we getting rid of the level beneath them? Because everything else could be pretty much observed, or not?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

It should be. So I think we should be getting to a point where there wouldn't be that level below because the HRBP is that uh what did you describe them as earlier? The the Northern Star. The we're

Rebuilding HR With Strong Business Partners

SPEAKER_00 21:20

we're we're relinquishing control to a degree where we're we're providing that consultancy, we're providing that insight and guidance, but we're not doing the application, we're not having the conversations on behalf of people leaders, you know.

Kieran Gilmurray 21:34

And you know, I'm gonna be challenging today, you can tell it in my face. So the business partners. So now I'm going to tell the chat bot that my cat died and that I need two days off because I don't have the HR person who I usually talk to, who is very empathetic. Is that what we're suggesting here? He says, leading the witness.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Leading the witness, absolutely. Um, I'm wondering what's got into you says the heat has got to your head. No, we will not be getting rid of the HRBP role and we will not people beneath.

Kieran Gilmurray 22:04

So is the HRBP partner going to be.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah.

Kieran Gilmurray 22:07

Because now we've got to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Is the HRB people partner going to be the go-to for all things?

Kieran Gilmurray 22:12

Because if we're taking everything, and this is my my channel, not as a as an AI expert automation, everything else we can do, whether we should is a different matter. But so we've got the CHRO, we've got the business partners who are going to do all those roles. You know, that's a larger shovel than I've ever seen one in quite some time. And then there's everything else from the day to day, because that works with the management and the leadership team. The CHRO should be sitting to the right-hand side of the CEO, the finance director, and whoever else is there, because that's should be strategic, people, strategy, business tech, whatever. Business partners doing the translation, you know, in very intimate, integrated into the functions themselves. And then there's a whole host of the stuff that happens on a day-to-day basis. In the moment, a lot of businesses are doing that, automated, hand it down to the business. But I go back to what I said before. I was in the business that I got all my finances, all my procurement, all my HR, all my everything. I didn't have actually time to do my job. So I thought, who can I hand it to? Unfortunately, there was no one left. So what is that that self-service layer and that self-service layer?

SPEAKER_00 23:14

And it's an interesting one because we have we have automated a lot of the the day to day. My cat died, I need two days off. No, I don't qualify for our force majeure. You know, we've automated a lot of that, you know, and we and we will still need that layer below HRBP, but it the role will be and should be less administrative and more technology-enabled frontline support. So, what I'm saying is that the future model is not let's automate it everything and remove that junior HR role. You know, it's automate the predictable stuff, no problem. We you'd be amazed how many people's cats die and the query about force majeure leave arises. It's it's I mean you might have been throwaway comment, but it's happened. Um I read someone the other day.

Kieran Gilmurray 24:10

They uh it sounds terrible actually, but to bring the podcast down, but the cat or dog was the last connection to the parent who had died and it re-brought everything up. And uh what you were saying is that I had to tell this to a chat bot to get the time off, and you're going, Oh my god, oh that's just awful. And that's a bit I mean, just because you can automate doesn't mean you should. And this here, you know, let's use the word automated offload, you know, where customers can self-serve. No, you've taken costs out of the business and getting your customers to do the work that you're paying for.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

You know, so so and it's something personally, Rick Kieran. I would have a big uh I wouldn't be on board with the the degree of self-service that we've gone down the route of, especially when it comes to people. And I think you know, from from listening to clients, listening to participants at sessions, that lack of face-to-face, that lack of speaking to a person, it has frustrated people a lot. And I mean, I'll even say that the self-service in my local super value. I mean, it drives me absolutely spare. I I can't, so I will always go to the the customer service desk. I will always could be a nice thing. Okay, Kieran, let's move on. We also wanted to mention just talking about automating and and the future focus being we know that the CIPD.

Kieran Gilmurray 25:32

I'm playing.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

I know you are well at this point.

Kieran Gilmurray 25:35

We've we've got new roles and functions underneath. And go back to what we're saying, just because you can automate everything doesn't mean you should. So you need to have that sense system thinking mindset to say, you know, what is the brand? This is the bit for me, Laura. What is the brand of the company? What's your message? And my most emotional moments, you know, yes, it is a, and this is something I think people forget at times, it is a transaction. You are swapping your time for, you know, producing something for someone else. Sorry, folks, but there's very few businesses that truly, truly care about you as an individual, that if the company goes to haywire, the business leader is selling their house and and keeping your children clothed. And it doesn't mean you can't have a gorgeous work culture. You certainly can. But we have to be careful that if we give CHROs new strategic roles, we give them the support, we bring the business partners in, we redesign the workflows, we look ahead to allow a business to be able to operate. I'm less fixated on the title, more fixated on people being careful in their roles, not suddenly ramping up because in the absence of titles, I know businesses

Automation Boundaries And Human Moments

Kieran Gilmurray 26:40

are asking people to do a lot. I'm not suggesting that. And beneath that, we're not just automating the mundane, because otherwise you end up overloaded cognitively because everything is over-emotional, is complex. And once you do that by four o'clock in the afternoon, if not early, your brain's mush. Yes, you can offload stuff, but be careful what we're offloading. And if you truly want to be a business that cares about your people, then we need to come up with people solutions for the moments that truly matter, that reflect back your culture and enable.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

And I think you know, that's where organizations sometimes need that bit of help to step back and look at the function honestly and say, you know, the answer isn't necessarily like this huge HR transformation program. If we're looking at HR, it may be something just more practical, like that mapping that we spoke, mapping the work currently being done across, you know, people ops, people advisors, HRBPs, identifying what should be automated and being clear about that capability that's required at each level. And I know I suppose that's something that you know, I know you obviously have that key, that more tech technology technological AI, I can't even say the word, and workflow lens, tech, tech. And you know, where I mean, again, with my clients, I would look a lot at that people and capability lens, where we look at the skills needed at each level and how those roles and responsibilities need to shift. But I think it's also very important to say how people leaders need to be supported. And I know despite us talking about challenges throughout the podcast, we have been very aware about how people leaders need to be supported and how any changes that we look at is translated into that everyday behavior. So it's not a standard future of work model and imposing it. You do have to help organizations understand its own work, I think, and identify. I love your point around that the human element, you know, identifying where that human value matters most and build from that.

Kieran Gilmurray 28:38

Yeah, 100%. And I think that's a bit that might surprise people, you know. You and I come from, you know, gorgeously two different lenses, but we're both ending up in the same place, you know, which is that my personal one is you need an amazing business strategy. That just doesn't happen in a vacuum. You need tech, of course, to impact it. But tech requires people, it requires emotion, it requires system thinking, because your customers do and your staff do. And therefore, as you and I have said, Luke, we we've torn apart HRs that function, or not the function itself, because we started out saying let's get rid of it, but that was provocation only to start the conversation. We actually both agree a function there that uh enables the capabilities to be in play for a business to help it thrive. A government organization help people and uh the end, consumer, client, customer, member of the public thrive. A profit and loss, we want the company making money because that frees the cash to hire more people, build a bigger business, secure those jobs, free time for investment. We have to be careful in this culture of more that we're not overloading people. Where overloading exists, we need to shave off that work. We need to give them the technology solutions to allow them to achieve more. We just have to be careful in this day and age, we're not loading more in. And it's not just about efficiency for today, that bit's easy. You want your 10 hours back, come to me, come to Laura, we'll help you. It really is setting your sales toward a brighter future where any of the technology you've got being HR, because we're talking about that, but imagine re-re-indexing in any function. The technology is there to free you to be more human than ever, to be innovative, to be creative. Let the tech take the grunt. Yes, let it help you be more innovative by giving you ideas or whatever else, but it's not the person, it's not uh human, it's not as future-focused as you and I. So we just need to be careful and design forward. So, what are we going to talk about next week, Laura,

Next Topic And Your Suggestions

Kieran Gilmurray 30:30

or the next time we we podcast? Because now we've said, yes, look, new roles, new structures, new coaching, new new BP partner. I think the bit we need to talk about is actually how do we get middle managers, future forward middle managers more capable themselves. So not fixing or business.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

And I think one of the foundational elements of that in in practice has to be something around whether, and it's something we could we could spend a bit of time talking about is uh competencies and capabilities. And it's something that that I'd work with a lot of organizations currently, and it's an interesting one because I work with organizations that have competencies, that have capabilities, that have nothing, and the systems that are around that to enable performance, to enable future focus. It's it's kind of an interesting one.

Kieran Gilmurray 31:19

Well, let's cover because we're in the era of AI, we're in a change world, things are moving quicker than ever. Let's look at the skills, the competencies, the capabilities, the frameworks, and everything else that will allow the managers and the leaders we're talking about today to thrive and build thriving businesses. Folks, thank you very much for listening in today. If you've suggestions as to what you would like to see, uh people's strategy, HR strategy, whatever you want to call it, learning and development, capability development, doesn't really matter. Give us a title.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

We're not precious about titles, but please do get in touch.

Kieran Gilmurray 31:52

Every denomination, we're here for you. Uh, what should they be doing? Uh, what could the roles look like? What should they be titled to? They need to be titled as a North Star. Should they just be outcome focused or outcome-facing, ensuring that people behave and don't suddenly use that as an excuse to overload even further? Uh let us know all these things. But next time, Laura, uh, we'll talk about the capability skills and everything else in between that people should be adopting, building into their own personal career paths and owning themselves, never mind the business, to allow them to be successful in the most dramatically changing era that I've ever come across in my life. Until next time, folks, thank you so much indeed.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Thank you.